Doug Downs (00:09):
They give a lot of speeches to a lot of interviews, so politicians are bound to make mistakes now and again, president Bush was known for Bush isms.
President George W Bush (00:19):
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stopped thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
Doug Downs (00:33):
Republican presidential candidate, Rick Perry had this beauty in 2011.
Rick Perry (00:38):
It's three agencies of government when I get there that are gone. Commerce, education, and the what's the third one there? Let's see, the commerce and, let's see, I can't, the third one, I can't, sorry. Turn.
Doug Downs (01:02):
President Barack Obama accidentally kept speaking once when God saved the queen was playing
President Barack Obama (01:08):
To her Majesty the Queen. The vitality of the special relationship between our peoples
Doug Downs (01:21):
President, Joe Biden is known for his gaps, including asking a paraplegic to stand up.
President Joe Biden (01:26):
I want to be clear, I'm not going nuts. The President has a big stick.
President Joe Biden (01:32):
We choose truth over facts
Doug Downs (01:36):
And President Donald Trump, how do we select just one?
President Donald Trump (01:41):
I'm very highly educated. I know words. I have the best words, although she does have a very nice figure. I've said that if Ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her.
(01:41):
Doug Downs (01:52):
Today on Stories and Strategies. How do we coach politicians to stay on message, on topic, and to be genuine? My name is Doug Downs. Quick thank you. Off the top two, Ernesto Cuberos, who left a nice note for us on Spotify for the episode we did about the Four Traits of Inspiring Thought Leaders. He says, "Really insightful yet inspiring information." Thank you for that, Ernesto. My guest this week is Krysten Copeland of KC and Company Communications joining today from Washington DC Hello, Krysten.
Krysten Copeland (02:37):
Hello, Doug. How are you today?
Doug Downs (02:38):
I'm good. How are things in DC?
Krysten Copeland (02:42):
Things in DC are great. We're all gearing up for friends for Thanksgiving, rather, and so we're just looking forward to the holiday season.
Doug Downs (02:51):
Absolutely. Krysten, you launched your consultancy almost a decade ago, working quite a bit with state and federal politicians such as Congresswoman Yvette D Clark, and former assemblyman Michael Blake. You've also worked with the Congressional Black Congress Foundation and the National Cherry Blossom Festival, and you serve on the board of Pine Forge Academy, one of the four remaining African-American boarding schools in the United States. So Kristin, when I think about communication support for politicians, the quick things that come to mind are writing speeches, making sure they don't say something wrong, ethical pitfalls, leaks of classified information. I know for you, keeping the politician on message is the big point for you.
Krysten Copeland (03:38):
Absolutely, yeah. No, because with all of these things that we're talking about, whether it is through a media interview or an email or a speech or whatever the case may be, it's really crucial and important to understand what the key messaging and talking points will look like prior to getting your candidate on one of those platforms. And so it's definitely something that's very important and we tend to stick to in terms of our output when it comes to media relations and whatnot.
Doug Downs (04:11):
I know when I work with politicians and media training or presentation coaching, it's not that they disagree with the key messages, they're all good or how important they are, but they talk a lot. And so they tend to just spin a yarn and they wander down a path and they go so far down that path that everybody's forgotten what the key message was. Do you find the same thing? It's about yanking them back in their lane?
Krysten Copeland (04:35):
Yeah, a hundred percent. And look, when it comes to politicians, a lot of times what they have to draw on their stories. And so what we do when we work with politicians is we don't shy away from it at the beginning of any kind of engagement. We talk to the politician or the aspiring politician about different stories that have influenced and impacted the work that they're doing, and then we pull out maybe two key stories, two to three key stories that they can use in different interviews that will help to highlight a point. So we find that that's a good way to not only let our client get out what they want to, but then also to really nail the point home with a real life example,
Doug Downs (05:17):
And communication with a purpose. It's intended to go somewhere. So messaging, politicians need exposure, particularly to their supporters and their potential supporters. So obviously, your work in determining the audiences and the best channels that you're going to use to reach those best audiences is really critical here.
Krysten Copeland (05:40):
Absolutely. Yeah. No, it's very critical to make sure that when you're reaching out with these messaging, you can do all of the messaging work in the world, but if you don't understand your audience, you don't understand where your audience is, then your efforts are going to fall short time and time again. And so what we do, just based off of our own knowledge, we know, okay, if we're looking at millennials, generally speaking, they're going to have a Twitter, or I'm sorry, on X, it's still a whole new world here, but we think about where would they want to hear these different messages and what are the best ways to communicate. So definitely understanding where your constituents, in our case with the politicians or voters, is really crucial in order to make sure that your messaging actually gets to its intended audience.
Doug Downs (06:37):
And that's a good point about social media because it's not just giving the best interview on TV or radio or speaking in a way that a newspaper reporter finds a clip that clicks these days. It's about their interaction on social media. The most successful social media politicians that I can think of, top of my head, Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders, Barack Obama, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in the UK, Boris Johnson in India, Narendra Modi in Indonesia, Joko Widodo and Queen Rania of Jordan, all fantastic on social media, all have huge followings and use those channels. How do you coach politicians to use digital media? And then how do you control them once they're on it?
Krysten Copeland (07:26):
Oh, yeah, that's right
Doug Downs (07:27):
You can't control Donald Trump. Let's
Krysten Copeland (07:29):
Just say that. I don't think anyone can control Donald Trump. That's a fact. No, when it comes to digital media, while we don't, we manage PR mainly, but my background is actually really a little more diverse in that I worked with a number of nonprofits and advocacy groups and the like with their social media strategies. And so as I'm answering this question, this is where I'm drawing the answers from. It's number one just to, I think at this point, people know that social media works when it comes to getting your message out there. When it comes to engaging with people in real time, you can't think of a better or more cost effective way to do so than social media. What I do find is that sometimes politicians are interested in getting into social media, but they're just too busy to manage it. So that's where we come in as consultants to manage that process or find someone who can.
(08:30):
But we also have had different clients, politicians that have liked to use their own social media and would like to chime in during those kind of high stake, high visibility conversations that are happening. And it's just really important, again, to know, hey, whenever stories come up about, let's say housing and how New York housing NYCHA and housing system needs to be overhauled, how do we talk about that? How do we engage with our stakeholders? How do we get more conversations on social media to inform what we're doing and we're talking about? So it's just a matter of, I like to tell them, dip your toe in, have the conversations after you do a little legwork and then go from there. But I think once, if you already know what your message is, or at very least what elements will go into your messaging before you get into some of those hotbed issues on Twitter, you'll end up being in a much better place.
Doug Downs (09:37):
Are some better at it when it comes to social media interaction than others? And are there some who willingly break the So-called rules, and actually that's their strong point. Again, Donald Trump comes to mind. I
Krysten Copeland (09:51):
Literally was going to just mention Donald Trump, for better or worse, he has definitely been able to define and stay on his message since he was initially elected years ago. And I think we've seen how that's played out in his favor. His supporters understand exactly what he's standing for, where he's going, which judge he's fighting that day, and they're able to support him in the various ways that he needs to get supported in this case, dollars for his campaign donation offers. So I definitely think that, again, for better or worse, he does it well. But if we're looking at someone who is more so fighting on the right side of history, as I would think, and like to say, AOC Congresswoman, Ocasio-Cortez is absolutely great. What I really like about the work that she does is that she does a lot of real time.
(10:55):
She uses the realtime, the platform in real time, if you will. And so when it comes to Facebook lives or Instagram lives or doing different things on TikTok, she's really plugged into not only where her audience is and what messages she needs to stick to, but also what platforms and vehicles she can use to best uplift that message as well. And so you'll see that sometimes it's not just her. She'll bring on another Congress person or she'll bring someone on from a nonprofit group. You know what I mean? And so she's really able to get her message out there because she thinks about all of the different ways to not only refine her message, but to tailor it to the people that she's getting in front of.
Doug Downs (11:43):
I know the live streams, the algorithms in the social media channels just love the live stream. You're almost guaranteed to pop up. Is livestream always a good idea, or are there some politicians you work with that maybe livestream isn't the best way to go?
Krysten Copeland (11:59):
I would say that there's a way to do it like AOC where you're doing it pretty consistently. And then I think there are also one-off opportunities. So I would say that all politicians, if possible, should be able to do, unless they're in the middle of a embroiled in a scandal, doing a direct to face camera interview or Q&A session with your constituents is a good choice, even if you only do it maybe once a quarter. So I think in this post covid world, we've really seen how some of those different platforms can really be used to make conversations happen more instantaneously, even more so than they have in previous years. And so I would say not every politician should do what ALC is doing. I think they could find that they maybe aren't ready to deal with trolls or if they aren't really ready to be in the hot seat with answering those questions or some of the tougher questions that might come up. So it's important for people to do what works for them, but I always think an opportunity to talk to the voters is one worth taking.
Doug Downs (13:10):
Okay. And at some point there's going to be a crisis. It may or may not be the politician's own doing. It could be party related, it could be the economy, it could be something else. Responding to a crisis is one thing. I want to just skip past that. I want to ask you about building reputation in the, so-called Reputational bank because part of your ability to respond to a crisis is all the investment in your reputation that you've made beforehand. What kind of planning does that take?
Krysten Copeland (13:43):
Yeah, no, so it's a matter of cultivating, I like to say cultivating goodwill. So before a crisis comes up, whether it's a crisis specific to you or something that inadvertently is going to blow back on you, making sure that you've done the things on the back end, and this is going to look different from every client, but just thinking about politicians, it looks like making sure that you, beyond having just a photo at a local food bank situation, you're talking to the constituents. Maybe you're talking to a reporter and get a story out about it. So that message is out there that, hey, you're interested, you're in the community, you're involved, and you know what the people are talking about because you're amongst 'em. I think it looks like if you know something big is coming up that is going to again negatively blow back on you or others.
(14:38):
We actually, not to switch out here, but I don't know if you heard that Sean Diddy Puffy Coombs. P Diddy recently had a lawsuit brought against him by his, in which he alleged that he abused her and heard her in a number of different ways. But what we saw as PR professionals before this news broke, because obviously he's high powered billionaire, hip hop star. He have the resources to know that these stories are coming up. And what we saw that was that over the course of the last couple of months, he gave back his former artists back their masters, and then he gave Howard University of HBC year in Washington DC He gave a check for a million dollars. And all of this stuff started happening, well, maybe the couple of months before this dropped about this news. And so while that's a good example of ways to get in front of it, I'm hoping that none of our listeners who are listening to this advisor like, oh, I also have a similar crisis. But that is a way and a strategy that we use PR people to again, get ahead of the story and cultivate a good story bank of things around the positive aspects of our clients. I
Doug Downs (16:03):
Good ease. And last question. If you're working with a politician and you suddenly find that there's something, maybe it's in their platform, but maybe it's something about them, maybe it was a response they had to something, but you find yourself on the ethical divide. It's not just they should have gone left and they went right where they should have gone orange and they went blue. Something touches on an ethical standard. It seems to me too simple to say, that's it, I quit because ethically we don't match. I'd love for that to be the answer, but the reality is you and your firm, you have employees, you have contractors, you have subcontractors. You might have a mortgage, you might have food that you need to put on the table. There's a lot of things that are in there. What do you suggest people do working with politicians and find themselves on that ethical divide?
Krysten Copeland (16:58):
That's a really good question, and luckily one that I haven't had to really face. I think being proactive is the key here. So if you are working with a politician that often makes ethically questionable choices, you kind of knew going in that this might be a thing. I think that there is a way to, as communications professionals specifically to influence the thoughts, the thinking process of various politicians as they're thinking through how to respond to some ethical issues. I'm thinking off the top of my head, the abortion crisis that we have here in the States. And so personally, if it was something that was just against my morals hundred percent, such as denying people access to healthcare, which is abortion, I wouldn't be too scared to say no and see the door. But I think it's going to be different for everyone. I think more importantly, it's good to have an internal ethos or board of standards, if you will, that you map things up against or push things up against to see whether or not it's something that you want to move forward in. So I hope I never have to deal with that in a situation, but in this contentious political landscape, it's definitely not something that's unheard of.
Doug Downs (18:29):
I do have one more question. Years ago used to be when a politician entered an event, they would hold up the baby and kiss the baby. That was the famous thing, but I don't know if that goes over so well in a modestly post post covid world, or whether it's post or just sort of a different chapter of Covid. I don't know. About 20 some odd years ago, I noticed it was right around the Clinton Al Gore kind of timeframe. They would enter into the big crowded room. They'd start pointing up at people pointing, I see you. Yeah, I see that. It was the point thing that they did to acknowledge people. What is the thing that you coach politicians to do now when they're entering into that crowded room or walking up on that stage? What is the thing they're supposed to do so that they sort of take control of the moment and exude their best selves?
Krysten Copeland (19:22):
Yeah, that's a really good question. So the pointing definitely works. I see you. Thanks for coming. It makes people just feel special. There are a number of different ways to do it. I like to also say when politicians are doing their speeches, if there are guesting or looking at somebody or connecting with someone in the audience, that's also a good way to just be like, I see you. Because again, with everything you're saying, whether it's the kissing of the babies or the pointing of the fingers, you're saying, Hey, I see you. I'm here with you. I'm present. Let's go do this. And so depending on the politician and their own personal style, there will be a number of different ways. We do have some, every politician isn't as outgoing as you would think, and so sometimes they find ways to connect a little better on one-on-one. But there are definitely a ton of different ways to make sure that people understand that you're not only walking in the room to talk about something, but you're also there to connect with the people there.
Doug Downs (20:29):
Yeah. Here's what I've heard, or so-and-so just told me earlier today.
Krysten Copeland (20:34):
Yes, exactly. Exactly.
Doug Downs (20:37):
Thanks for this, Krysten. I appreciate your time today.
Krysten Copeland (20:39):
Awesome. No, thank you so much, Doug. I've had a good time.
Doug Downs (20:43):
If you'd like to send a message to my guest, Krysten Copeland, we've got her contact info and other contact information in the show notes. Stories and strategies is a co-production of JGR Communications and Stories and Strategies podcasts. Please do leave a rating, five stars. If you could like this episode, could you also do us a favor, share it with one friend? Thanks for listening.